Layby selection

Post reports of moth sightings and reports from South West Scotland

Layby selection

Postby ron » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:50 am

Hi All,
Just for a change i was going to post a few that i caught in a layby, but i think i have found, well it found me it was sitting on the windscreen just before i left i think is 935 cochylimorpha alternana which according to UK Moths should not be up here ? you can see the distinctive black raised scale-tufts, circled in white, in the media fascia as described in UK Moths
Next is a Silky Wave, very small at first i though it was a Maple Pug before i took its photo but now i`am sure it`s a Silky Wave
Next i really have no idea but quite a nice micro.
Lastly just for a bit of fun a grass veneer i should really name it ( i do have a book ) but it is just the way the eyes follow you no mater which way you look at it.
So what i am really looking for is conformation and an ID. Anyone
Ron
P.S. Iain many thanks for post on photographing micros, myself still using point and shoot.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
ron
 
Posts: 363
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:00 am

Re: Layby selection

Postby IainH » Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:57 pm

Hi Ron,

That’s a nice set of moths!

I don’t have my micro book with me down south, but I in my naivety don’t see anything that rules out C. alternana. However, it does seem to be a) a species of southern England and b) difficult to separate from similar species, and I’m not familiar with either of these moths, so I’d defer judgment to someone else.

I think your wave might be Small Fan-footed wave (the dots on your wave are very prominent to my eyes)?

Iain
IainH
 
Posts: 482
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:42 pm

Re: Layby selection

Postby ron » Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:28 am

HI Iain,
Once again i would say you are correct re-small fan-footed wave. After i read that i said to myself he must be using the Lawyer and Bankers version of W&T myself i have the wire bound one but to be fair it does mention prominent black central dots just that i never read that. Now to Nick who i hope is reading this and i think was after a W&T there are 2 versions the wire bound one which i have and the Lawyer and Bankers one. Both have the same illustrations but the wire bound one really lacks in the descriptions and runs to 153 pages of text not counting the index the other i think has 200+ plus pages of text but nearly twice the price. If i were to start all over again i would sell the wife and buy the Lawyer and Bankers one.
Now to the micros at the moment the weather is too nice and the games have started so i think it will be awhile before i find an answer unless someone feels brave enough to forward a suggestion.
Ron
Last edited by ron on Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ron
 
Posts: 363
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:00 am

Re: Layby selection

Postby AlistairMurdoch » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:27 am

Hi Ron,

what about sending your C. alternana picture to Scottish Moths?

Alistair.
AlistairMurdoch
 
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:06 pm

Re: Layby selection

Postby ron » Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:33 am

Hi Alistair,
Tried to access Scottish Moth but it`s one site that i can never really work i know it`s me. Would be nice to send it to UK Moths if they would like it but can`t find an e-mail address anywhere.
My post of Aug 13 ( wed 28th ) photo below where you and Iain both thought it was C. straminea, we are all a year older and i hope wiser and i put it to you both that we are looking at the same moth luckily this year found in pristine condition. And it was found at the SAME location ( first layby on you right south of Lendalfoot 20 feet from the beech ) which tells me it has been resident for sometime.
Can`t really do anything else just hope someone will correct the record i.e not only found in South of England.
When i go on to UK Moths and select prev/next specimen and read the description i can`t come up with anything else other than 935
Ron
P.S. would be nice if we had a proper C R.

Image

Image
ron
 
Posts: 363
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:00 am

Re: Layby selection

Postby AlistairMurdoch » Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:18 pm

Hi Ron,

perhaps when you submit your records for 2014 to the county recorder, you could include this years picture as evidence - and see what the response is. I think it will eventually get to the national experts that way.

Alistair.
AlistairMurdoch
 
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:06 pm

Re: Layby selection

Postby ron » Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:57 am

Hi Alistair,
Sent off photos to local C.R. so will post result if i get a response, did finally find an e-mail address for UKM`s so now it`s all back to the future, can continue mine hunting.
Any thoughts on the other micro or is it to far gone.
Ron
ron
 
Posts: 363
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:00 am

Re: Layby selection

Postby nickcandlish » Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:34 pm

Ron,
These micro's are difficult aren't they! One of the problems I find is that the paintings in S&P are flat and don't give any impression of texture.
I reckon your Cochylimorpha alternata is probably C. straminea for four reasons....

C alternata doesn't have an apical spot
From the species description of C. straminea in S&P the cross band is interrupted or faint towards the costa
The food plant of C alternana is Greater Knapweed, whilst I'm no botanist my wild flower guide says that it is found on calcarious soils.
And lastly, balance of probability based on known distribution.
Having said all that I do hope that you're right, ...It would be a great record!

Nick.
nickcandlish
 
Posts: 230
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 10:52 am

Re: Layby selection

Postby ron » Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:48 am

Hi Nick,
Nice to hear from you, i`m afraid i don`t have a copy of S&P and i more or less have to rely on a visual, but what i do understand is that C. straminea does not have raised scale-tufts in the media fascia where as this one clearly does. I also think one of the dangers when trying to ID. a moth is when a book says it can only be found here i.e Moon and i am living on Mars so immediately people think it can`t be that, but at the end of the day hopefully we will find out.
Ron

Image
ron
 
Posts: 363
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:00 am

Re: Layby selection

Postby ron » Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:44 pm

Hi All,
Did say that i would post result if i got a response, have to say it was as much help as a sore head, won`t go down that route again.
Have now procured a copy of S&P and you don`t need to guess the page i opened first. But there is a Bombshell coming. Firstly it`s a pity that there is not a good description of these two moths C. alternana/straminea. nearly all web sites just copy each other what has been written description wise. Believe me i have trolled the net and no where have i found mentioned scale-tufts on C. straminea and photos i have examined some do show but i think worn. Looking at the two of them in S&P side by side it must be obvious that size is really important but again MIN of one and MAX of the other ? i do think the spots on the costa are more prominent on C straminea which i think is shown on mine. Only UK Moths mention scale-tufts RINGED IN WHITE on C.alternana
NOW here is the bombshell try and access ( lepidoptera.pro/taxonomy/11343 ) you might have to put www. first i am sure you boys will know what to do. That should take you to a page where you will see three excellent photos of C.straminea taken by Vlad Proklov Russian i think, which clearly shows the scale-tufts RINGED IN WHITE on C. straminea which UK Moths have named C. alternana. so both can`t be correct, so if you have any friends or friends of friends that know about such things let them know check it out.
Now i am really confused i think i will just record it as a bar of chocolate.
Ron

Edit 14 dec
Last edited by ron on Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
ron
 
Posts: 363
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:00 am

Next

Return to Moth sightings

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron