Layby selection

Post reports of moth sightings and reports from South West Scotland

Re: Layby selection

Postby IainH » Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:00 am

Hi Ron,

I think that micro identification is still not quite an exact science. I exchanged emails with a micro expert a few months ago regarding my previous year’s micro records. We discussed whether my record (and photo) of the rare Monopis obviella might be M. crocicapitella. The expert pointed out that MBGBI says that obviella has pale yellow markings on the forewing, whereas crocicapitella has orange markings… but that S&P and the recent Scandinavian guide has this the other way around!

Iain
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Re: Layby selection

Postby nickcandlish » Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:01 am

Ron,
Why not send the image to the Natural History Museum on line ID service.
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/communi ... tification

Nick.
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Re: Layby selection

Postby ron » Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:25 am

Hi Both,
First Nick that`s what i asked the C.R. to do or something similar, but no more in Public. However i would be grateful if someone ( yourself perhaps) would do such a thing, you don`t need my permission, i`m hopeless when it comes to such things that way we might get a result.
Iain it would appear that .PRO ( Russian maybe or Polish ? ) have got C.alternana and C. straminea the other way round also which does not help us, where i think most of us use the web for ID. now a days. Your last Micro was quite nice as was NIcks Oak Nycteoline first i have ever seen.
Ron
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Re: Layby selection

Postby nickcandlish » Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:47 pm

Ron,
I'm on the case, (with the help of contacts who are experts in the field) could do with a six figure map reference for the site.
Nick.
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Re: Layby selection

Postby ron » Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:07 am

Hi Nick,
Many thanks for doing that and wait for it just like buses i received an email from the C.R. just opened it this morning after thinking what i have been thinking. Sorry i don`t have a map in the house but you can safely say 7 miles south if Girvan on the coast road [Lendalfoot ]. I don`t know the protocall regarding e-mails but i think i would be allowed to say that ( The Ray Society Volume clearly says C.alternana has wing tufts, whereas C.straminea does not. ) and i feel there is a genuine interest around. Maybe your experts are the same people i don`t know but it`s good you took up the baton, surely now we will get a result, hopefully i will be allowed to tell you all what`s going on.
Ron

Image

tons of knapweed i think common

Image
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Re: Layby selection

Postby nickcandlish » Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:23 pm

Ron,
I sent the image link to a micro expert in Inverness who opinioned that it could well be C alternana and suggested that I contact another expert in Aberdeen who was not so convinced, he in turn contacted yet another authority who has bred C alternata (reading between the lines the national authority on the species and it's close relatives) who was also not convinced. The bottom line here is that you are going to need a specimen for dissection. No doubt Gill Smart will contact you with much the same story as she has also been in touch with one of the people that I contacted.
As I said in a previous post I'm no botanist, however from what I've read there is no such species as Common Knapweed, from my Collins guide I'd say you are showing Black Knapweed or one of its hybreds. Greater Knapweed (the food plant of C alternata) seems to have petals that branch into a number of fronds. Gill Smart is a botanist and no doubt would be able to advise you, subject to survey, as to wether it occurs at the site in question.
Hope that this helps,
Nick.
EDIT. Correcting my self here, on the basis of further reading Common Knapweed is one of the vernacular names for Centaurea nigra, my 1985 edition of Collins Wild Flowers does not mention it. Sorry for the error..

Nick.
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Re: Layby selection

Postby ron » Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:45 am

Hi All,
Received an e-mail this morning and as Nick said a specimen is required without which they cannot be certain, but at least the correct people have seen it and to that end i`m quite happy. I don`t think i will be down that end this season again but if any of you go down and are lucky to catch one remember to keep it. So really it`s still open, can`t ask for anything more.
Ron
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Re: Layby selection

Postby ron » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:35 am

HI All,
Not long now before moths will be found in the back gardens, there are moths being caught around the country but mainly in woods or wooded areas, in my case maybe another 2 months.
Now i have some good news and some bad news
Bad news first, for the first time my hair has now gone from grey to white ( bit hard to take ) i look like one of those medieval monks and when the barber asks i just reply, take a good bit off it and what`s left paint it black.
Now the good news, but first i have to harp back to the Back Garden Moth Community a site that was run by moth-ers for moth-ers and it could boast 3 maybe 4 proper CR`s and as i have said before you could ask for an ID. and it would be back within the hour. Most of these guys have their own site and i was trolling the net the other day and i just wondered, i won`t mention any names but this man is well known and respected in the mothing world, he used to live on the famly farm and for years he would catch more moths than the 4 of us put together, now married and lives on his own property and ex members out there i am sure will know who i am talking about. Having made contact with him in the past i thought i will send him an e-mail, told him this moth hade been round the houses and an specimen was asked for and i also gave him my location and a photo of the moth, asked the question on Thursday recieved the answer on Friday and here is his reply :

Thanks for getting in touch
Always happy to help

The onlly species this can be confused with is C.straminea.

Personally they can be told apart by the raised tufts that C.alternana has.

Obviously it is advised to have these dissected as some specimens can be worn.

Yours looks like your original ID.

Cheers

Now when a man like him says it is x beleive me it is x, my only concern now is what`s the motive behind people not recognising tufts on this moths wing, i did, he did, and i am sure 100% of you out there do also, judging by the number of you who visit this site i suspect most of you live in other parts of the UK. it would be nice if you could join this forum, if you are allowed to, that way it would increase our knowlege base up here. So for those of you who are keen on records i think you can safely record C.alternana south of Girvan, SW Scotland or maybe more correct the Ayrshire coast.
Ron
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